by Daniel Gettinger
In Yesterday’s San Diego Union Tribune, Nick Canepa wrote an article titled: Baseball Has Lost Some Charm. The article is utter hogwash, best characterized by passages such as:
The Grand New Game — if that’s what you want to call it (I prefer the old one) — is being overanalyzed into embalmment. Baseball history always has been driven by stats, which is why the steroid era has smacked it in the mouth and it’s still bleeding. But we never knew what an OPS or UZR or any of these other geek formulas were. And, if we didn’t know, the real ballplayers didn’t know. They didn’t need to. They just went out and played.
AND
Baseball remains a marvelous sport, unlike any other, but please don’t tell me it hasn’t lost part of its charm. It has been laundered by too many statistics, too many Ph.Ds, and too much money has nearly washed it clean of characters.
The article is one that most Friar Forecast readers will dislike. I do not feel the need to analyze it in depth (Melvin has already done that). However, the piece got me thinking. Not about baseball, and its loss of charm, but rather, about how often we (the blogs) criticize the mainstream media, yet rarely reflect on our own shortcomings.
The biggest issue with blogs is there is more crap than quality. In few areas is this more evident than in our own Padres community.
Geoff Young has been generous enough to maintain PadreBlogs.com, a listing of all current Padres related blogs. At the moment, there are 38 Padres blogs listed on the site. That’s right, 38 unique Padres blogs.
Of those 38 blogs, I see less than a handful that are worth a regular read.
The Padres blogs can be broken down into a few categories: analysis, community, and personal–blogs whose main purpose is to provide the author an outlet for experimentation with writing. Some blogs fit into more than one category.
I have no problem with the personal blogs. Although they do not typically interest me, they are generally unassuming. If someone feels like experimenting with writing, and chooses to focus on their favorite baseball team, that’s fine with me. I don’t need to read the stuff, but typically, these types of blogs do not badger me to read the stuff.
Analysis blogs are okay. The biggest issue is there are too many of them. There are a few “leaders;” analysis blogs with a somewhat sizable following, and then a whole lot of others. Many of these blogs post very similar commentary as the others.
Such disaggregation is a disservice to readers. It is difficult to follow so many blogs, and interacting in a meaningful way (one of the advantages offered by blogs) with authors on so many different sites is near impossible. I encourage authors of analysis blogs to consolidate. Such consolidation often leads to higher quality articles as there is less pressure to churn out consistent posts when there are numerous authors at a single site. It also allows readers to get their commentary in less time and without as much effort.
About a year and a half ago, I chose to take my writings from my individual blog to Friar Forecast. It made sense for me, and it made sense for my readers. I realize there are reasons to remain independent, so I do not expect complete consolidation within the analysis blogs sphere. But there should be more than there currently is.
Another issue with analysis blogs is many don’t offer actual analysis. Some merely offer game recaps and other Padres news. The mainstream media does a great job reporting Padres and baseball news. Blogs add value by providing additional analysis that does not require insider access. There is no reason for a blog to exist if it is only linking or summarizing what has already been written by traditional reporters.
Switching gears…
I cannot stand almost every one of the community based blogs. I don’t deny the value of having one or maybe two strong community sites. Having more than that is completely unnecessary.
Gaslamp Ball has been around for a while, has a large, active community of fans, and through the SBN platform has the infrastructure to allow those fans to interact in a number of ways. I see no reason anybody should start a similar blog/community. Such communities are subject to network effects. Their value increases as more people use them. Given Galsamp Ball is doing such a good job in that area, the formation of new communities is pointless. Unless of course the founder of the new site just wants an ego boost.
As readers and writers of blogs, we often forget that blogs are not perfect. The shear quantity and duplicity of blogs, even within our own Padres community is daunting and unnecessary. I encourage consolidation by those providing real analysis. Those who think forming new “Padres communities” that merely link to other articles, provide underwhelming analysis, and badger us on Twitter and Facebook to join their community is a good idea, should ask themselves why? Why flood the market with a product that is already available at a higher quality? Why not participate in an already existing community?
Interesting viewpoints Daniel. I think I agree with you on many fronts. I’m not your typical run-of-the-mill “padres blog”. Being that I blog about Northeast Indiana and the prominent Fort Wayne team is a Padres affiliate, I am sort of guilty by association. However, I deal with the saturation point even here. When I started BBIFW, there was little by way of an on-line community for all things baseball in NE Indiana. The Wizards didn’t do much other than report box scores and there was no downtown stadium. In the last couple of years, the TinCaps have stepped up their web presence and with a downtown park, there are many local bloggers covering more baseball than before. Given this, and not wanting to waste time repeating things already blogged, I sort of went on hiatus last season. As spring training approached, I have chosen to take a look at BBIFW and its purpose. Namely, I’m getting back to chronicling the “historical perspectives” versus the “latest news”. News items can be blasted on Twitter to call attention to the fact without doing a full story on the blog. In that way, it acts more like a versatile community than a news site. The “new” approach might mean more research and less posting, but so be it. That was the intent of BBIFW in the beginning. Funny how it evolved back to that.
Would I be allowed to link to this article without being hypocritical?
Heyooooo
Anyway, I’ve thought about this too. I’ve always thought it just doesn’t make sense to try being the UT, or try being a beat reporter. The professionals will always do a better job of that with so many more resources and experience.
I definitely agree about the “community” blogs. This is the one segment of the blogosphere that is a zero sum game. The more fans in one spot the better, and Gaslamp Ball just does such a good job it’s silly and counterproductive to compete with them.
As for the the “analysis” and “personal” groups, I don’t see the fragmentation as something so terrible. People try their hand at it for awhile, some stick around and others move on. I do agree consolidation would help. But I like the “pyramid” model where people write their own blogs, and if there’s a fit, a larger blog can absorb writers based on history.
And seriously, enough with the spam on Twitter.
Nice work, Daniel. I had my own Tigers blog but Ian who ran bless you boys decided to step down and Kurt took it over and brought two of us on board to be writers as well. I think it’s great because now we get the best of both worlds: We’ve got the gaslamp ball like community (since we’re an SBN blog, too), and a nice blend of analysis and boring game recaps/link dumps/news. It’s nice to bring a heavy sabermetric hand to the Tigers blog as well.
P.S.: I’ve got MLB.tv this year (split it with a friend) so hopefully I’ll have things to contribute around here now, if you and Myron are cool with that. I think I’d like to try getting back in the swing of things here (always sort of liked the Pads anyways), so if that’s cool let me know. I’m not a big ideas man so if you have anything you can’t do because of time or whatever, send it my way (though, I probably should wait until I can start watching the pads regularly and get a feel for the team again).
Appreciate your thoughts. The Padres certainly aren’t unique in having multiple personal/analysis blogs covering their team. Eventually most people do what you’ve done – identify those blogs worth reading, based on their tasts and interest, and disregard the rest.
So who died and left you blogging God? Mashable.com ( they are REAL experts on social media) just had an article on blogging that directly contradicts what you took probably hours to write. Their main point is that the more blogs there are on a subject the more it helps each individual blog get readership as longs as the writers link to each other. Help each other out because of a common bond, that subject. The links get your ranked higher and the better your rankings the more readership. That is the truth of blogging. More choices get the best blogs more readers. Little hate fests like yours there are not productive. Link to all the other blogs on the Padres and let the readers decide.
And Gaslamp Ball blows. A bunch of childish clowns followed by a dozen or less regular posters. So no I won’t go to their crap site. I wish there were MORE communities so I could get to know MORE Padres fans and not just the 10-12 regulars on any single board. Maybe today I want to be part of a SABR oriented community and tomorrow I want to be part of a heavy drinking Padres community and the day after that I want to read a bunch of whiners and diss them all day and another one that has mostly chicks that love baseball. Who the heck are you to be saying I shouldn’t have that right. That its “pointless” to start new communities? WTF!
I know what the article REALLY means and so does anyone who read it. Places like Friarhood and SacrificeBunt and Planet Padres and Websoulsurfer and Padresrundown and Chicken Friars and the others are taking your readers. Your traffic has fallen and now you are whining about it. Get a life. Or just get off your high horse and write articles people want to read. No one wants to read crap like this article, that is for sure. I cannot believe that Myron would have ever stooped to something like that post. Maybe its time he took back over HIS site. How much did JBox pay you for the ad anyway?
*tastes. Stupid fingers.
Chad-Interesting thoughts. I love blogs like yours that offer readers information they don’t get elsewhere.
Melvin-Good points. And just to clarify (although I am pretty sure you were mentioning the linking in jest), I of course feel links to interesting articles on other blogs are fine. We just don’t need 38 sites devoted to linking to the same articles without any additional commentary on them. One or two sites (such as GLB’s links of the day) is sufficient.
Mike Rogers-Thanks. Of course we would love to hear your thoughts on Padres related stuff at any time!
Nunya-I appreciate your thoughts, but you are entirely off-base regarding my reasons for writing this posts.
Last month Friar Forecast hit an all-time high in terms of readers. The second and third highest trafficked months were February 2010 and January 2010 respectively. We have more than doubled readership compared to this time last year.
As for the specific sites you mentioned-I read many of those sites. I was not calling out anyone in particular. In fact, many of those authors are frequent commentors here, and I have linked to their work in the past. In the case of The Sacrifice Bunt, I linked to a quality piece written by Melvin in this very post!
I think Daniel started his article by citing to the Sacrifice Bunt and Melvin – one of the authors of SB – agreed with the point. So it that kind of defeats your contention that somehow he is jealous of the places you listed. If he is, why would he refer to it in the second paragraph?
The whole point, which is valid, is more people would pay attention to individual writers if they consolidated their similar interests on one site; most people don’t want to visit 38 different places in one day.
So let me put this in the writing style of Nunya so he can understand.
Maybe IF you READ the article BY MOVING YOUR LIPS you could understand the point of the article.
Until then stick to Twitter, there are character limits so it will help you with your ADD.
Basically, what you are saying is that Friarhood should go away, or at the very least chill out… I couldn’t agree more.
One other thing, Melvin did write a great article on Canepa – couldn’t agree more.
What Greg said.
Man, did I ever choose the wrong time to start up a Padres blog.
Interesting article, I believe that having a number of blogs is fine it is the nature of the medium. The inevitable product of this is for people like Canepa to attempt to discredit blogs due to the fact that anybody can start them, etc, but people are becoming more aware that blogs often are credible sources of information. To have a blog that was created and became successful given the competition in many ways makes the content more credible than that of newspapers and television as they have a captive audiences.
We have to be careful not create the sort of elitism amongst ourselves that we already get from the likes of Canepa. The last thing I would want to do is to discourage a fan out there from starting a blog and sharing his opinion, because that was me at one point.
Melvin and I have been at this for two and a half years and in that time we’ve seen many blogs go up and come right back down. The ones that are going to stay are the ones that are willing to put in the time and effort to maintain. That doesn’t mean I’m going to read everyone of them, but more power to them to just exist.
For all we know, the next Geoff Young could be out there looking for an outlet, and I can’t wait to read him someday.
Hey guys, I have to admit I do not come to your site often. Not because you do not do good work, just because as you mentioned their are a lot of Padres blogs.
You didn’t mention Friarhood by name, and I do not think I should flatter myself and assume you are talking about my little site for all I know you are talking about RJsFro.com or avengingjackmurphy.com who knows?
I do know that I offered to have Friar Forcast on our weekly Radio show and the invite was turned down at the time. Hopefully in the future you will join me.
Friarhood was developed as a fan community to bring fans together on and offline. We had an event last week with over 80 Padres fans in attendance and have sold over 60 tickets to our events at Padres and Storm games.
I am not a sabermetrics guy, I do not consider myself an expert or a journalist. I do consider myself a fan and unlike other sites that simply blog, I have a mission to enhance the fan experience through events and fan interaction.
If you guys want to join in great, if you do not, that is okay as well. At the end of the day we are all Padres fans.
Whoa. Stirred up a little bit of a hornets nest?
Daniel I want you to know that I appreciate your blog and I hope you appreciate my sometimes (lol) contrarian comments.
I love seeing my blogs name in print, but would prefer if some one ranting like he had a 12 pack in him already wasn’t the one bringing it up.
I must say that I find almost everyone in the sports section at the Union Tribune to be no more competent than most of the active bloggers who cover the Padres. I would much rather read Ducksnorts, The SacBunt, Friar Forecast or any number of other Padres blogs than Bill Center or Nick Canepa. At least the bloggers try to research what they are saying and a good portion of them actually understand what WAR or VORP mean. I am not so sure Canepa does or he would LOVE the Sabremetric stats. For the most part they help you have a deeper appreciation of what is really going on in the game.
I would love to see more of the bloggers get press credentials so they could have a chance to create the same kind of relationships with the players and staff that Canepa and crew have received just because they work for the UT. Those relationships are what make or break most journalists and I think alot of the bloggers I read daily (or almost daily) would really benefit from being able to cultivate more of a relationship with players and staff.
The one guy in the local newspapers that I do like and read daily is Dan Hayes of the NCT. He puts out some well thought out and factually correct pieces.
I participate in several communities and I find they all have a different “flavor”. ESPN, Mad Friars, the UT boards, which are the Padres boards I participate in most often, and the other Padres boards or communities attract different types of people and posts. They serve a niche.
As for consolidating blogs, I think that I will stay independent. I would love to see a situation like they have in St Louis or New York where there are literally hundreds of blogs and huge groups work together to promote each others blogs through posting comments and placing links. That is the one thing Nunya said that I truly believe. We all prosper in terms of readership when we are talking to and about the other bloggers.
In fact can you do an article on here calling me an idiot? The Washington Post baseball blog did that when I posted about Kouzmanoff and I got thousands of hits. It was wonderful. LMAO.
Anyway – Go Padres!
Ray-One thing I failed to mention was I would never discourage someone from starting a blog (I feel these would fit into kind of a combo of the personal blogs and analysis blogs). At some point though, I would tend to encourage consolidation (although, as I mentioned, there are plenty of reasons to remain completely independent, and I recognize those).
Steve-Thanks for stopping by. (Note: I truly was busy when I declined the invite to appear on your radio show. Lateish Thursday evenings–I live in the Central time zone–are always busy for me).
Websoul-Really interesting thoughts (and great third paragraph). And yes, you’re still wrong about Kouzmanoff’s fielding and David Eckstein! But its always good to hear a different point of view. Keeps us in check!
I also want to clarify something–when I use the word “consolidate,” I don’t mean to suggest that authors should cease writing. Rather, those same authors can write the same things, just over fewer sites. I would never want to muzzle ideas.
I do enjoy the blogs of quite a few of the people that stopped by – Steve of the Friarhood, Websoulsurfer, RJ’s Fro, Sacrifice Bunt to name a few – but a distinction should be made between sites that are trying to be “blogs”, which I define as people who want to write opinion pieces, much like columnists for a newspapers or create big fan sites as compared to “webzines”, which are more about information.
I think “webzines” tend to be more of a journalistic/reporter driven endeavors. MadFriars, as with Friar Forecast, 619 Sports.net and Ducksnorts, try to touch on topics that aren’t found in the paper or local media. They try to offer their readers more information and analysis than opinion and usually serve much more of a niche, and what defines a “niche” is another article for another day, than the broad spectrum of many of the more successful blogs.
Also there are quite a few blogs, Friarhood and Padres’ Rundown that come to mind, that really try to do both – opinions and interviews; and both enrich any fans knowledge. I’m not a huge fan of columnists like Canepa or Tim Sullivan and find the opinions on the net, when I am looking to read this type of content, not only much more interesting, but more factually accurate.
My main complaint is that I don’t like when a print, radio or television guy attempts to portray the internet as one thing; and as anyone who has read, listened and watched the traditional media there is quite a bit of bitterness from them about everyone on the net. Then again if many of the people out there are showing that they can do your job better than you with less time and far less money, I guess I would be upset too.
I am not one of those backward-thinking, “good old days” sports fans, but I will say that if I can’t derive a stat from looking at a box score, then I won’t bother with it. If it takes an algorithm of an algorithm to analyze a ballplayer’s value, I just don’t have the time for it. I think Canepa may have merely been making that point. Or maybe he’s a “good old days” codger.
I like the idea of choices. I subscribe to Mad Friars, read Ducksnorts, Gaslamp, PadresRundosn and It might be dangerous. The others I sample from time to time. When more pop up, I sample them.
To put it simply. I could not disagree with you more. The beauty of the blogging community is its’ incredible level of diversity and the resulting anarchy. I want to see more blogs and more passion, not less. Hopefully one day I can wear the label of “The last Padre fan without a blog.”
I write a blog that is not really directed at the education of fans but instead as a forum for expressing the most qualified opinion in the world: mine!
I try to be funny. There are 11 people who think I’ve succeeded.
In the end, my blog is a way for me to keep my mind sharp, interact with fellow fans, and opine. As that is my purpose I cannot begrudge Daniel a desire to give his opinion on the state of the Padre blogosphere. But I do take issue with the reasoning behind Daniel’s argument as well as the argument itself.
The following statements are in conflict:
1.)”The biggest issue with blogs is there is more crap than quality.”
2.) “Of those 38 blogs, I see less than a handful that are worth a regular read.”
3.)”….disaggregation is a disservice to readers.”
If it is agreed that less than a handful of blogs are of quality then there is not a disaggregation of “quality content”. This makes the decision simple: find the 5 (or less) blogs that provide the most utility to you as a fan/human and follow those. Forget the rest.
There are good movies/books/magazines/newspapers/etc. and then there is absolute shite. Use your critical thinking skills to waft through the B.S. and then call it a day.
The aggregation of writers at one site is sickening, in my eyes. I’ve been asked to contribute to a few sites and I’ve done so. I was asked to become a regular contributor to a Chargers blog and then was told to tone it down because it was too critical (it was actually brilliant and very funny but it absolutely took the piss out of Antonio Cromartie who was “allegedly” a follower of that blog). I said, NO way. The minute someone tries to alter my voice, so I can fit into a nice little corner of their site, then it is no longer my voice. I write what I write for one reason: it’s fun. I don’t get paid and most people could give two shits about what I write; to which I say, “Cool!. Go find what you like. My feelings aren’t hurt.”
Book mark what you like and then read it. If those favored/trusted blogs suggest that you go check something else out by providing a link then hey….you’ve got the freedom to choose. But to suggest that people with ideas should all aggregate under a couple of reputable banners sounds a lot like a two party political system…..and we’ve all seen how that’s worked out (George Washington warned us!)
To a point I see what you are saying but at the same time I disagree with you. I love reading every Padres blog out there…..yes even you Web
….and encourage people to start new blogs. In fact I’ll even let you in on a little known tidbit…back in ’07 Myron was indeed the one who originally convinced me to start my own blog.
Now occasionally there will be stuff that will get repeated on sites and I’ll just skip over it, but for the most part there’s almost always going to be at least one thing that’s different about a blog that all the others don’t do. I have to admit lately on the surface RJ’s Fro hasn’t been churning out the best stuff. Part of that is due to myself working extremely hard behind the scenes getting the site back into working order again after the redesign.
My original/current goal with my site is to talk about the current Padres but also to have a big emphasis on the history. When Moorad and Garfinkel first arrived they were portrayed as not really caring about the Padres past and I didn’t want the fans to forget. Hence the name (RJ’s Fro), the colors (Brown & Yellow), the history pages (that are getting worked on as we speak) and the interviews with former Padres such as Randy Jones & Bob Chandler (as well as others in the works). I wanted to do something different and noticed no one was blogging about the past so I went with it.
Just like you guys do an amazing job on the Sabermetrics/number crunching side, sites like Padres Rundown & Mad Friars do amazing jobs on the minor league stuff. It’s fun seeing up and comers like Unfinished Business & Perpetual Padres Saga work their way up the ranks. Those 2 girls love their Padres with a passion and that’s awesome. Sac Bunt does an amazing job on the marketing stuff and is always an entertaining read. Geoff just does an amazing job in general on everything from minors to the current Pads to crunching some numbers to everything else in between. Web doesn’t lay down for anyone and is sure to let the front office know about his complaints. Which is great because it causes people like myself, who are growing into big fans of the current front office, to sit there and really think about things. Much like Web, Avenging Jack Murphy isn’t shy about showing his true feelings and mixes both humor with some really informative pieces on the Padres. Friarhood Steve does a little of everything too but does an amazing job getting the fans together. Whether it be on his radio show, gameday chats or meetups. I went to his last event I can say that it was pretty cool and I had a blast that night cheering on the Padres (who were playing in AZ) with many other Padres fans (including Geoff of Ducksnorts & Peter of Padres Rundown). GLB also brings a lot of fans together. Their site is unique because anyone can go there and post something, making all their readers technically bloggers themselves. Of course there are also the many new blogs that have been started the past month or so that perhaps haven’t found their niche yet, but who knows maybe any day now they’ll have that great idea and will start rolling with it and one day we’ll say “I like how this blog does this differently than all the others”.
There’s a lot of good out there, you just need to give it a chance.
Interesting thoughts, Daniel, and good discussion. I’ll add my 2 cents…
Once upon a time, it was nearly impossible to find useful information about the Padres on the web (or anywhere). A primary motivation for starting Ducksnorts was the desire to read what wasn’t being written. As much as anything, it served as a place to keep notes for myself on topics that I found worthy of discussion but that the media, for whatever reason, wasn’t discussing.
When blogs hit the mainstream, I always wished that the Padres were better represented. One of the things I’ve come to appreciate — slowly, mind you, because I’m slow — is that fandom takes many forms and that not everyone experiences baseball in the same way… which is part of its beauty. Not every blog is going to appeal to every reader, and vice versa.
Much of what is now available doesn’t resonate with me personally, but I like being able to look at something and decide for myself whether it’s worth reading or not, as opposed to wondering where everyone is and why nobody gives a damn. I also think there’s a place for community-based blogs. Gaslamp Ball has helped raise the profile of the Padres in a way that nobody else has been able to do. The Friarhood is filling an important niche, too, bringing fans together to share in their common interest. I had a blast at Steve’s Opening Day meetup, and I know I’m not the only one.
To Daniel’s individual points, although I agree that “it is difficult to follow so many blogs,” I’m not sure that encouraging “authors of analysis blogs to consolidate” is the best solution. There may be some truth in the notion that “consolidation often leads to higher quality articles as there is less pressure to churn out consistent posts when there are numerous authors at a single site,” but the flip side is that less competition among different sites can lead to laziness, or worse. Yes, there is the danger of information overload, and as Mike@AvengingJackMurphy notes, critical thinking skills are crucial… although this has always been true, even with traditional media, whether people recognized it or not.
As for the contention that “Given Galsamp Ball is doing such a good job in that area, the formation of new communities is pointless,” I couldn’t disagree more. Altavista used to be the best search engine around, then Google came along and created something even better. We used to think newspapers were great, but now many of us use the Internet as our primary information source and cannot imagine life without it. Cold food once seemed okay, but then fire changed everything. Stuff evolves.
“Why flood the market with a product that is already available at a higher quality?” Because maybe someone will develop a product that is of even higher quality than the existing one. This happens in pretty much every industry. I do agree with Daniel, though, that bloggers “should ask themselves why” they are doing what they are doing. Critical self-examination is generally a good thing in life, and asking why is usually a good place to start.
Chad mentions “more research and less posting,” which I think makes sense. Web touches on the research angle as well. Depth of thought is a value add. It’s what I found lacking in other outlets when I started Ducksnorts… and I have to say that, whether “we” had anything to do with it or not, mainstream coverage has improved in the past 12-13 years, which is also a good thing.
Bottom line: I think more choices rather than fewer is better for fans. I also think that increased competition is healthy, because it forces each of us to stay on top of our game and consistently deliver quality content. That’s a win-win in my book.
Lots of great comments here. Because of the quantity and depth of those comments, I am not going to respond to each of them, but here are a few quick points…
1) More consolidation is unlikely to reduce competition by too much. There are still likely to be at least 3-4 strong, established sites, plus a large number of newer sites. In addition, there will be increased intra-site competition to help keep the quality up. Perhaps intra-site competition is not quite as large of a motivator as inter-site competition, but it is a very real effect and helps negate the decrease in inter-site competition.
2) More consolidation would not reduce variety. That variety will just be easier to access. Most of us don’t buy apples from one farmer, bananas from a second, and oranges from a third. Instead, we go to the store and pick them all up at once!